Fri 16 Mar 2007
We remind ourselves all the time that TrueMajority exists to be a service to our members, to help them increase their involvement in moving our government and nation toward progressive values. When we found ourselves, like the staff of other pro-peace organizations, tied up in knots over whether to support the House Democrats’ “half a loaf” bill setting a deadline for Iraq withdrawal, we eventually remembered that.
Here’s the transcript of our discussion this morning:
Matt [Matt Holland, Online Director]: Darcy and I have been debating the supplemental. As expected, the Approps cmte passed their version last night, will go to full house next week.
Matt: The prog plan (money only for withdrawal) failed unanimously in committee, and even “out now” folks voted for the Pelosi plan (except Barbara Lee) saying it was the best step for now.
Matt: but, our member poll shows that as of last week our folks liked “no money” better than “pelosi plan” [ed. note: see poll results, below]
darcy [Darcy Scott Martin, Political Director]: i think the loss in the senate put more pressure on the ds in the house to move something forwardMatt: One option is to hold fire entirely, send no alert.
brian [Brian Sant, Online Organizer]: our members have worked hard on this issue we can’t just not say anything about the supplemental
bkroetz [Ben Kroetz, Campaign / Field Director]: i agree we need to say something
darcy: we gotta respond to the survey
brian: yesterday we were all about NO on the supplemental, despite what move on and others were doing
brian: but now, because of the press that this is a dem victory, we are rethinking that. so, are we serving our members, or serving the press?
darcy: our mems often agree the press is wrong
brian: in any case would we want to adjust our political message to reach more members? if so, we should just adopt the republicans
Matt: we are not selling OUR message to people.
darcy: we could write something on this and launch the link discussing all the aspects of the issue and allowing folks to comment
Matt: discussion page already exists, just needs writing in it.
brian: darcy, if the sup passes, is the deadline for withdrawal firm? will it really happen? or are there loopholes like with the murtha stuff?
darcy: there are a million ways the administration could get around that date, but at least it sets some kind of a marker
brian: right, i get that. that’s what makes this so damn complicated
brian: i think the press and everyone else has forgotten one thing: if this passes, sure there is a ‘timeline’ for withdrawal, but until then, we can send tens of thousands of troops to dieand that timeline may not really happen
Matt: It’s not like that. It’s about getting more and more of Congress on board so the next bill is better, and eventually we really cut off the money.
brian: so lets tell our members that
Footnote:
A poll this week of TrueMajority members on strategies for dealing with this supplemental war funding bill came out like this:
40%: Supported the plan of progressive Representatives, which would make sure that any new money for the war could only be spent for safely bringing our troops home and rebuilding Iraq. [this option failed in the House committee, 64-0]
35%: Felt Congress should reject the President’s request for $100 billion more in war funding, no matter what.
24%: Agreed with Speaker Pelosi’s plan, the one which made it out of committee yesterday.
15 Responses to “OUR Iraq Supplemental Debate”
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.
March 17th, 2007 at 12:02 pm
I’m shocked that True Majority has decided to try and kill the “Pelosi Plan”. This legislation has been painstakingly crafted to attract enough Blue Dog Democrat and moderate Republican votes to actually pass! And because it is a funding bill, a filibuster won’t work against it in the Senate. We are not talking about “non-binding resolutions” here; this is for real! And you guys are working against it?
This is a good bill. It’s a responsible exit plan that has a real chance of passing, one that keeps pressure on the Bush administration and the Iraqi government to meet specific goals, and one that could bring Americans together as we work for its passage.
Sure I’d like to see the troops come home even faster. But working against this bill will only insure that they stay longer. Let’s be realistic. No other alternative has a chance of passing. If this fails, we are in Iraq until at least 2009.
March 17th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
I cannot believe you people! I am a US soldier and I have served two combat tours in Iraq with the 82nd Airborne. Do you understnad the awesome progress thats being made over there? Why would you want to pull us out in the middle of our mission. Its impossible to support the troops without suppodting our mission because plain and simple, we(the troops) support our mission. What you see reported on the news is all BS. The Iraqi people let their kids play with us while on patrols, bring us food, and tell us through our interpreters how grateful they are for us. I bet you wont hear that on CNN. It seems like democrats hate Bush so much that they want to make the war in Iraq a failure even if its turning itself around because they would hate for Bush to win his war and make the anti-war people feel stupid. I just dont understand for the life of me where you people get off being this way. Stop being so bias.
March 17th, 2007 at 5:59 pm
I think as true progressives, we must stick to demanding *No More Funding* for this illegal and immoral quagmire. Last week, I and military mom Tina Richards were screamed at by Rep. Obey. it was disappointing, and the mantra that “we can’t get enough votes” is like a self-fulfilling prophecy. I don’t believe the Dem leadership has even tried.
We should demand what Rep. Lee did, and in the end she voted against the supplemental. The Power of the Purse is the constitutional power that can be applied here.
March 17th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
From what I’ve read and seen on Tv, here’s what
I think:
The Senate shoulld pass bills by their normal margin;
when they fail to get 60 votes-pinpoint those who voted against; give forums like this a petition to pass out in neighborhoods asking the local Senator(s) to give reasons in public why they back the President.
Most of all keep in the publics’ mind that Democrats are being restricted from action by Republicans still in office-46 of them!
March 19th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
Senator Feingold is one of the Democrats who truly understands the mission! Bring them home now and stop funding the war! We voted for change. Senator Biden’s comment “Stop supporting the President and start supporting the troops” rang ever so clear in my ears! Please congress….treat these soldiers as if they were your own flesh and blood! Bring them Home!
March 19th, 2007 at 6:03 pm
[…] There are, of course, other ways of running a survey. When TrueMajority.org recently surveyed its members about the best way forward, they offered three choices: the Lee plan, the Pelosi plan, and the option of demanding that Congress reject any further war funding, period. Only 24 percent of TrueMajority’s members supported the Pelosi plan — which appears to be the reason why MoveOn’s survey gave their members no choice but the Pelosi plan. […]
March 20th, 2007 at 11:07 am
[…] There are, of course, other ways of running a survey. When TrueMajority.org recently surveyed its members about the best way forward, they offered three choices: the Lee plan, the Pelosi plan, and the option of demanding that Congress reject any further war funding, period. Only 24 percent of TrueMajority’s members supported the Pelosi plan — which appears to be the reason why MoveOn’s survey gave their members no choice but the Pelosi plan. […]
March 20th, 2007 at 11:17 am
Even if congress passed a law requiring withdrawal tomorrow, it would not bring back troops significantly faster. It’s best to give the opposition no chance to argue that they didn’t have time or clear direction.
We have to expect that they will not obey the law, they have demonstrated time and again that they feel above the law. The most important thing at this point is making it clear how alone they are in wanting more American troops to die over there.
Then, when an election makes it possible to scrape the scum out of the system, they will be weak, bitter, even more widely despised, and easy to get rid of.
March 20th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
I think more politically can be done to thwart the “evil of terror” than what the U.S. has been doing. Let’s just come right out and SAY what’s on our minds. Some of our issues with the war in Iraq and the deep impact of Muslums who do live here in the U.S. (and other immigrants) need to be dealt with differently. For instance, the days of being “PC” just to be “PC”, should go the wayside. I challeng any of our democratic Presidential nominees’ to use this as a platform for reform. This has purportedly been checked out on TruthorFiction.com and Snopes and they both say it is true.
Muslims who want to live under Islamic Shari law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.
A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws were made by parliament. “If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you”, he said on National Television
“I’d be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia: one the Australian law and another Islamic law that is false. If you can’t agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that’s a better option”, Costello said.
Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should “clear off. Basically people who don’t want to be Australians, and who don’t want, to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can basically clear off”, he said.
Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation’s mosques.
Quote: “IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.”
“However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the ‘politically correct’ crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia.” “However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.” “This idea of Australia being a multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. And as Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle.”
“This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom”
“We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society .. Learn the language!”
“Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.”
“We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.”
“If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don’t like “A Fair Go”, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don’t care how you did things where you came from. By all means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others.
“This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,
‘THE RIGHT TO LEAVE’.”
“If you aren’t happy here then LEAVE. We didn’t force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.”
America needs to take back it’s country. We need to be ONE again -not separated by bad politics or weak politicians. This needs to happen. Mark the line in the sand:
#1 - National Language recognized as ENGLISH.
#2 - Don’t let immigrants get into our Social Security funds without being LEGAL and inputting in their own money!
#3 - stop wasting money on a war that was never about Al-Quada. Bring our troops home!
I love my country and I served in the Armed Forces and wish I could go instead of these young men. God Bless America - Let’s get our country back NOW!
Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, American citizens will find the backbone to start speaking and voicing the same truths!
March 20th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
It’s really very simple: We are being fooled, yet again. Don’t be fooled. Don’t tell your members it will be better next time. Tell the truth instead.
Tell them this truth: If the Pelosi/Democratic plan passes, the war will continue, ’surge’ and all for 18 more months. If it does, 1500 US troops will be killed and thousands more maimed in Iraq.
Tell them this truth: 75% of your respondents voted against the Pelosi/Democratic plan. They voted to stop funding the war instead.
Tell them this truth: MoveOn did not give defunding alternatives in their poll. Challenge MoveOn to do a new poll, and to include the option of stopping the war funding. MoveOn itself admits many members stated they voted to support the Pelosi/Democratic plan only because MoveOn did not provide an option to vote to stop the war funding. MoveOn members were fooled by MoveOn, and they have a right to know that.
(Thanks for taking a real poll, not a fake one, as MoveOn did. Thanks, too, for providing information about your internal debate, which MoveOn has not. [What to do with those pesky poll results which show the public is not going along with the party line?] Thanks also for providing a public comment forum, which MoveOn also has not done.)
Tell the people this truth: The US public, by at least a 68% majority opposes the continuance of the war, according to all polls.
Tell them this truth: A majority of both the House and Senate are on record as opposing the ’surge’, yet Congress is bizarrely about to vote to fund the surge.
The public voted the Republicans out of Congress almost 6 months ago, because the public wants the Iraq war to end. Even Jim Baker advocated a winding down of the war.
Yet, Bush says he will escalate, yes, escalate instead. And he is about to get away with it.
How can this happen? What is going on?
Again, it’s simple, very simple: the mainstream, corporate owned media works for and with the Bush Administration. They have been spewing pro-war propaganda aince ‘02. (Remember their owners are directly profiteering from the war.) The media has Congress largely cowed. The media used to actually influence public opinion.
The good news is that they no longer do, at least not as much as they did. The public opposes the war now, despite the contining propaganda. But Congress is way, way behind the learning curve. They still fear the media will be able to paint them as unpatriotic if they stop funding the war. (At least, that is what they tell those who ask why they will not vote to defund the war.)
It now seems to have become a bit like a ‘Pavlov’s dogs’ situation. Congress members, completely disregarding the election results and the public opinion polls, believe the media’s spin instead. They have become so used to fearing the public will be swayed by the media’s pro-war hype that they are actually disregarding proof that public opinion is resisting the pro-war message. Spin and hype have replaced logic and truth. The media have become the message, indeed.
The Democratic leadership caved in to the media and to their own pro-war colleagues. Don’t help them continue the war. Instead, keep insisting that they stop funding the war. The public’s opinion might acutally get through if you do.
Don’t be Fooled Again! Don’t tell your members it will be better next time. Don’t lull them to sleep. Wake them up! The troops are dying while we are debating. Only the public can stop the war now. Tell the public the truth!
We can stop funding the war now. That is the truth.
March 21st, 2007 at 8:51 am
I agree with the Lee resolution. Let’s get our kids out of Iraq. I would however, like to address something that I find missing in all these grassroots organisations movements and I suspect it’s because there is little if any coverage of these subjects in the american mass media. What about the patriot 2 act extension. What about the military commissions act and most especially the warren act which was very quietly signed into law and gives the president the authority, on a very broad basis to declare martial law and use the national guard within the United states. Also, why does the haliburton
subsidary KKB have a 300 mio. plus contract to build detention camps in america? Who is supposed to fill those camps? To get non mainstream information I recommend our members sign up for the www.informationclearinghouse.info
newsletter. I hope you’ll spread these thoughts. Moveon never did to my knowledge
March 21st, 2007 at 4:57 pm
I am a Colorado member of Military Families Speak Out and I applaud your courageous stand! I have been a regional moveon.pac coordinator and worked for them for many years; however this stand to not only support the supplemental, but encourage their membership to do so has severed my alliance with them. I am sorely disappointed at their stance to support the supplemental because it “provides an exit My son will be deployed with his Marine Infantry unit in less than two weeks to Iraq without adequate training or equipement as a result of the escalation. Daniel and his friends have told me that they do not want this war to continue or to be deployed. They know that the only way to end the war is to defund it. date”. There are many other thousands of “support troops” who have recieved no training for Iraq. They are all going to the front lines and will be in great danger. We must support the troops by de-funding this war, bringing them home now. Not one more dollar must be appropriated to continue this war and not one more life must be sacrificed!
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:40 am
I’m angry that you guys would ask us to help defeat the Pelosi bill. Handing Democrats a defeat on this weakens our hand, it doesn’t strengthen it.
What do you think will happen if it doesn’t pass? They have to pass a bill. If there’s a next bill it will be one the Blue Dogs and Repubs support because that’s where the votes are. Take the goddam knife away from your noses and think this through. Do another poll if you have to. I think like MoveOn you’ll find your membership isn’t nearly as foolishly impractical as you think it is.
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:34 am
I can see that our member comments fall closely in line with the poll we ran. It is definitely the case that there are diverging opinions about this piece of legislation. We are now posting the letter we sent to members of the Progressive Caucus to make clear the position of our members.
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:11 am
young for fun…
Do you have a newsletter to sign up to?…